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The Face of Hatred
An Interview with Matthew Hale, World Church of the Creator

by Scott D. Gillette


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To fully grasp American politics and culture and where it may be headed, it is sometimes necessary to examine not only what is going on in the mainstream of the culture, but at its furthest margins. Fringe organizations or movements with even small memberships can have an impact if they possess a sufficient intensity and single-mindedness in purpose. Moreover, their existence reflect tensions within the body politic in their most extreme form. To understand these organizations is to prevent their growth, which is why I am examining the World Church of the Creator.

The World Church of the Creator (WCOTC) is a white-supremacist organization based in Peoria, Illinois. It considers itself a religious organization that does not worship a God, but celebrates the white race. Its adherents are guided by a philosophy called Creativity, which holds that the greatest cause one can adhere to in this world is the advancement of the white race. Their primary slogan is that "what is good for the White Race is the highest virtue, and what is bad for the White Race is the ultimate sin."

An ex-church member, Benjamin Smith, made national headlines in 1999 by going on a shooting rampage against minorities in the Midwest that led to two murders and ultimately his own suicide before police captured him. Ben Smith's story can be read at,2669,2-32081,FF.html The World Church of the Creator gained a great deal of notoriety and press from this incident, but its leaders denied that his behavior was within the teachings of the church. Lisa Turner, the head of the Women's Frontier of the WCOTC, described the shootings in this way:

"I absolutely attribute his behavior to frustration over Rev. Hale's law license denial, as well as his frustration with the "system" ignoring White people's legitimate legal grievances (i.e. continued illegal immigration, hate crimes against Whites, etc.)  Ben Smith did commit a crime and under the precepts of Ben Klassen's (the founder of the WCOTC) teachings, he was completely outside our teachings of peaceful, legal change.  We have made clear that we do not condone Ben Smith's actions."

However, Lisa Turner said in a different interview "we neither condone nor condemn the use of violence. Just as we would not condone nor condemn it with Brother Smith…If the alternative is falling into the hands of the enemy, as in the case of Hitler and our Brother Ben Smith, suicide is a noble act which robs the jew (sic) masters of their power to further degrade our People…" Clearly, Turner's position is that while Smith's actions were outside of the WCOTC's code, his actions were understandable when viewed through the prism of the ongoing persecution against whites.

My personal opinion is that this organization's views are abhorrent. However, I also believe that to condemn the organization out of hand without examining its positions is to actually give members and potential supporters of the World Church of the Creator a sense of aggrievement that would strengthen its organization after all is said and done, and actually fuel the very violence that the World Church of the Creator officially rejects but refuses to condemn.

Many individuals, of course, would disagree and find my willingness to give this group a platform to be almost as controversial as the group itself. I do not seek to antagonize or hurt anybody or stir up controversy for its own sake by printing the material that follows. So if you believe that any content that follows will be sufficiently upsetting, please desist from reading further.

I contacted Pontifex Matthew Hale, the leader of the World Church of the Creator, as well as the aforementioned Lisa Turner for this article. I told both of them that I was not a supporter of their group, but that I would make every effort to ensure that their position was fairly represented in the article.

Both Matthew and Lisa struck me as articulate, driven and polite individuals during the interviews. Matthew struck me as being particularly media-savvy, and had gone to great lengths to ensure that his views maintained an internal logic. Their positions were not espoused in paroxysms of rage, but in a level-headed tone that could only come with a sense of deep conviction that I found chilling.

The content of the conversation follows below:

Page 1     Page 2     Page 3

© Scott D. Gillette, 2024

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